• stoy@lemmy.zip
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    3 days ago

    And wow, Trump is so much better than Harris would have been for Gaza!

    Gaza was a stupid cause to get hung up on, I am not saying it isn’t important, it is extremely important, but letting the cheeto win just to spite Harris for not supporting Gaza enough was stupid

    • Archangel1313@lemmy.ca
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      3 days ago

      Oh, I am with you, friend. Unfortunately, being on the same side as him, just “not as bad”, definitely didn’t do her campaign any favors. Especially among low information voters, who are really just taking everyone at their word. While Trump was boldly asserting himself as anti-war, Harris was just giving vague, wishy-washy answers, that relied on far too much nuance. American voters don’t like to think that hard.

    • CmdrShepard49@sh.itjust.works
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      3 days ago

      If you truly believe “Gaza was a stupid cause to get hung up on” then what’s your justification for her continued support of the genocide occurring there?

      You act like people are stupid for making a big deal about it, while failing to give a reason why she felt it was a big enough deal to support even if it meant letting Trump win the presidency yet again.

      • agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
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        2 days ago

        Palestine has been a bipartisan bad take for the US the whole time. Any single issue is a bad issue to get hung up on. “Lines in the sand” are a fragmentary psy-op to get you to ignore the big picture.

        Yes, every big deal is a big deal, but there are hundreds of big deals. Taking a stance on this one didn’t make it any better, arguably made it worse, and also let a whole lot of other big deals get bigger.

        Single-issue voting is how we got in this mess in the first place. We aren’t going to single-issue vote our way out of it.

        • CmdrShepard49@sh.itjust.works
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          2 days ago

          There’s a difference between intentionally torpedoing peace talks and outright arming and funding a genocide against a civilian population.

          Democrats have been shitty for the country for a long time, but now the mask is off and people are seeing through the virtue signaling, false promises, and outright lies. This may be a single issue, but its the straw that broke the camel’s back for a lot of people and it’s one issue in a sea of issues the Democrats are on the wrong side of.

          We didnt get into this mess by voting on single issues. We got into it by continually electing people who are using their positions for personal gain and the gain of their wealthy donors above all else. That’s the bipartisan issue. Both parties work for the same people and it isn’t us. The political fights broadcast on TV and social media are just a smoke screen to make people believe we have two opposing parties, but it turns out the real opposing parties are the American people and the wealthy.

          • agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
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            2 days ago

            We didnt get into this mess by voting on single issues. We got into it by continually electing people who are using their positions for personal gain and the gain of their wealthy donors above all else.

            Single issues are exactly how those people manipulate your vote.

      • stoy@lemmy.zip
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        3 days ago

        None, but with her the US would not be destroying itself as quickly, and USAID would still be a functional agency.

        I try to be a realist, and looking at Trumps regime, I don’t see Harris causing more harm in total.

        • CmdrShepard49@sh.itjust.works
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          3 days ago

          You make statements like “with her the US would not be destroying itself as quickly” and wonder why she didn’t win the election?

          You don’t see the irony in saying “you must vote for either the slow destruction or the fast destruction of the country because if you don’t, you’re supporting the destruction of the country.” How about people take their partisan blinders off already and see that limiting yourself to these two choices is what’s destroying the country.

          • stoy@lemmy.zip
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            3 days ago

            I don’t wonder why she didn’t win, the US citizens had two alternatives.

            1. An educated, experienced, boring politician.
            2. An unhinged lunatic.

            The US citizens picked the lunatic.

            • CmdrShepard49@sh.itjust.works
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              3 days ago

              Way to quickly back track and deflect from your last comment.

              I also find it funny that everyone defending Harris and the DNC for running a train wreck of a campaign and handing the country over to Trump eventually comes around to admitting they don’t even live in the US despite their strong opinions and insight into US politics.

              • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                2 days ago

                And then scream that anyone who isn’t pro-genocide is an evil foreigner for disagreeing with netanyahu.

        • kreskin@lemmy.world
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          2 days ago

          I try to be a realist

          You realists sure do tend to lose elections. But hey, maybe you’ll get enough republican votes to win next time, eh?

          • stoy@lemmy.zip
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            2 days ago

            First the Republican party would need to establish itself here in Sweden, then you would need to kill me, steal my identity and vote for them in my name, that is the ONLY way they will ever get my vote

    • Brave Little Hitachi Wand@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      They should invent some kind of an intermediary layer between the voters and the elections to ensure that demagoguery and sensationalism cannot prevail. That would fix everything.

      /s for the kids who skipped civics

      • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        I agree on the sarcasm of it not working one bit, but that layer should also have been completely irrelevant, the real problem is that Trump is a sociopathic criminal that was never arrested for his crimes. Not even when he attempted a coup.
        A fucking traitor, who was allowed to run again, despite it was clearly illegal, and he should have been in prison.

        Seen from Europe the problem is not just that Trump was elected, it’s the complete failure throughout American society to stop him.
        The judicial failed, congress failed, and the people failed.
        Also the democratic process within the Republican party failed, where they have turned away completely from traditional Republican, American and democratic values. AND we saw similar problems in the democratic party with Biden not stepping down as promised, and back when Bernie was running.

        Problem is that the entire system AND the majority of the population are toxic, and Trump is allowed to act way outside the scope of his presidential powers, and clearly contrary to the constitution without being stopped.

        The roundup of immigrants and detainment without seeing a judge, and being sent to prison in foreign countries alone, is violation of the constitution on 3 counts. Yet it is allowed to continue!?!?!

        • Brave Little Hitachi Wand@lemmy.world
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          3 days ago

          Hundy p. Aside from the sanity-thin norms holding back the American empire from pure naked tyranny, the whole thing was built on slaves and stolen land, and still is through the 13th amendment.

          I was one of the kids who was raised to an ideal of inclusivity and egalitarianism that has never existed in the real America. I left, and now find myself an immigrant from a place that doesn’t seem to exist. Sometimes I feel like a cryptid or something.

          • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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            3 days ago

            I was one of the kids who was raised to an ideal of inclusivity and egalitarianism that has never existed in the real America.

            Absolutely true, but in the 70’s at least there was hope, things seemed to generally move in the right direction more often than not.
            Then it slowed down with Reagan, and with Trump it has all gone to shit.
            All countries have problems with racism, but no other democracy has as big a social and cultural debt as USA.

      • grue@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        You mean the electoral college? It would probably have worked if we hadn’t broken it by choosing electors by popular vote instead of having them appointed by state legislatures.

        • Brave Little Hitachi Wand@lemmy.world
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          3 days ago

          Maybe. Hard to say what would have worked at this point, without sounding like we were caught by Scooby Doo. “It would have worked too, if it weren’t for you meddling oligarchs!” Rome tried reforms too, but it was too late.

    • Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      2 days ago

      Genocide is NOT a stupid cause to get hung up on. It is literally the worst crime that can be committed.

      More than 90% of Democrats believe that there’s a genocide happening, and they want it to stop.

      Politicians are supposed to LEAD their constituents, not follow. Kamala has no North Star, so she was doomed from the start.

      The best thing she could have done was take Walz’s lead, but the donor class swiftly shut that shit down.

      You tell me if we have a functioning democracy

      • stoy@lemmy.zip
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        2 days ago

        Considering that in the US’ two party system, you can have a winner who lost the popular vote, I’d say that the US is a deeply flawed democracy.

        Any democratic system that includes first past the post is a flawed system

    • BCBoy911@lemmy.ca
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      2 days ago

      What makes you think she would be any different from Trump on Palestine? Everything Trump is doing right now is a continuation of the Biden-Harris policy of letting Israel commit genocide with absolutely no pushback.

      • stoy@lemmy.zip
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        2 days ago

        That is EXACTLY my point!

        She probably wouldn’t be any different, but she would be remarkably different on US policies, immigration, trans care, USAID.

        People who refused to vote for Harris, you forgot about the biggest fact in politics, you never vote for the best candidate, you vote for the lest bad candidate.

        No one will be able to convince me that Harris wasn’t the least bad candidate between her and Trump.

    • Grimy@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      letting the cheeto win

      When will you bootlickers understand that SHE let him win? Her job was to represent her constituents, instead she decided to represent Israel. She decided to support genocide instead of us ffs.

      • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        Yes voters, propaganda, and online influence campaigns specifically designed to help trump win literally had zero power. That’s when Russia helped trump win the first time, everyone knew it totally didn’t matter at all /s

        • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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          3 days ago

          You literally cannot comprehend the notion of a politician needing to appeal to their voters in order to win.

        • Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          2 days ago

          Kamala had momentum before the DNC because she was choosing progressive partners like Tim Walz and seemed to be diverging from Biden.

          Then she gave her DNC speech, and locked in her policies as Biden 2.0.

          Sure Russia helped, but Harris holds the most blame as to why she lost.

        • Grimy@lemmy.world
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          3 days ago

          The fact is Russia wouldn’t have had such an easy time if kamala wasn’t loudly saying “Fuck you, fuck your beliefs, I stand with the oligarchy and genocide.”

          It’s a politicians job first and foremost to win elections. Stop blaming voters, all you are doing is enabling the Dems to act like idiots.

          • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
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            3 days ago

            Yes the real problem is a tiny handful of assholes and definitely not millions of morons

            For the record I’m blaming non voters and online propagandists mainly. You know, what you’re trying to create?

            • Grimy@lemmy.world
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              3 days ago

              The tiny handfuls of assholes were in charge of the platform they ran.

              It’s also weird to say “the few supporting genocide aren’t the bad ones, it’s the ones that can’t overlook it that are at fault”.

              If you keep blaming anyone’s but the ones on charge, the dems will try to walk the line between us and Israel next election too, and they will lose again.

              The election is over, now is when it’s the time to be critical of them! Stop giving them an easy pass for the complete shitshow they pulled.

              • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
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                3 days ago

                It’s our jobs as voters to be informed. Being informed means understanding the impact of your vote. That’s an entirely separate issue from putting pressure on politicians to do the right thing. We should be doing that, but not at the expense of destroying society, which is what’s happening now.

                • Grimy@lemmy.world
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                  3 days ago

                  putting pressure on politicians to do the right thing

                  Essentially, the only time you can put real pressure is when you vote.

                  i don’t think abstaining was necessarily the right move, shortsighted but not immoral.

                  More importantly, now that it’s over, bitching about the voters exercising their right over fucking genocide of all things, instead of the corrupt pieces of shit that actually forced the genocide issue is simply insane imo.

                  What’s funny is all the absolute and complete morons that chant ‘you have to vote for genocide, just ignore it next time’ are the same that question how the right could vote for a convicted felon and pedo.

                  The fact is, the party has to change, it’s not up to voters to accept genocide. The fault lies enteriely on them for making it a voting issue in the first place.

                  And if they don’t change because half the base is ready to blame someone else, then they will lose again.

                  • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
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                    3 days ago

                    You fucking people always think you can vote third party and not fuck the country but that never has panned out

        • Grimy@lemmy.world
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          3 days ago

          Yes? My point is neither did Kamala and that is why she lost.

          The bar isn’t trump, it’s higher then that and the dems fucked up by trying to go as low as they could.

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          3 days ago

          Gaza was a stupid cause to get hung up on

          For not supporting Gaza enough

          I see you. I see the language you use, trying your hardest to avoid the word genocide. Trying your hardest to blame anything but the dems blatant and unpopular support for a foreign warmongering state. You are either a zionist or a useful idiot.

          We need to demand better from the “good” political party, not offer them an easy scapegoat. Stop enabling them.

          • stoy@lemmy.zip
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            3 days ago

            Ok, since we are doing stupid wordplay.

            You can quote me on this:

            Israel is at this moment perpetuating a genocide in Gaza, this is the truth.


            Also if I never made it clear, I am not American, I am a Swede who strongly believes in the social democratic ideology.


            That being said, not voting Harris in the last (?) US election was stupid for those who support Gaza (as you should).

            • Grimy@lemmy.world
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              3 days ago

              Genocide was a stupid cause to get hung up on

              Here’s your original comments with the proper terms used. Do you understand how much of lunatic you sound like?

              Genocide is a stupid cause to get hung up on? Really?

                • Grimy@lemmy.world
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                  3 days ago

                  Holy shit asshat, you seem to be assuming how I voted.

                  I voted for kamala, the problem is I felt like shit doing it. The problem is she ran such a worthless disgusting campaign a lot of people didn’t show up. But how can I blame them and not her, when she and the rest of the party CHOSE genocide over their us.

                  All you are doing is ENABLING them to do it again, blaming the voters does nothing other then benefitting Israel.

                  The party needs to realign themselves if they want to have a chance. With the fuckery being done, they need a record turn out and they won’t get it by being Israel’s lapdog. Scapegoating literally harms our chances next election, because it gives them a green light to try their hardest to lose.